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BANG! round five


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#26 Insert Name Here

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Posted 22 May 2009 - 10:04 AM

What about if we rewrite it like this:

View PostKramer, on May 22 2009, 10:40 AM, said:

1. Kramer has come right out and said "I'm a human" and tried to back it up with the best case he could find.
2. Therefore the guy who votes to lynch Kramer next is knowingly voting for a guy who has claimed he is a human and tried to back it up.
3. So when Kramer turns up dead and is in fact revealed to be a human, the Sheriff will have points 1. and 2. to consider, but it won't change his mind particularly because everyone claims to be a human.

It doesn't really work for TWG, because everyone is claiming to be a human, and similarly in this, everyone is claiming to be a deputy, otherwise the Sheriff will just try and kill you and everyone else will help him as they're trying to blend in.
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#27 Kramer

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Posted 22 May 2009 - 10:08 AM

I think the Bang/ TWG comparison is a disanalogy (Warburton _). I don't think the mechanics are the same at all. There is much less onus on anyone to prove they are a goodie in this. Like I said, an outlaw or a renegade might want things to stay grey.

#28 Masked Dave

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Posted 22 May 2009 - 10:09 AM

And how would they keep things grey?
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#29 Kramer

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Posted 22 May 2009 - 10:17 AM

I dunno, by not making any claims? By making it more difficult to tell who is who?

#30 Insert Name Here

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Posted 22 May 2009 - 10:30 AM

I disagree. It may not make much odds early on, but as player numbers decrease the Sheriff's view of what's going on becomes clearer, and you really want him/her to believe you are on the side of good right up until the point you turn on him/her.

When we were playing in the pub, it came down to me, Hentzau and Jim, who was the Sheriff. I was the renegade, Hentzau was the deputy, and it had been made fairly obvious that this was the case so Jim didn't have much trouble deciding to kill me. If I'd made more of an effort to come across as a deputy, it wouldn't necessarily have turned out that way.
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#31 Kramer

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Posted 22 May 2009 - 10:41 AM

View PostInsert Name Here, on May 22 2009, 11:30 AM, said:

I disagree. It may not make much odds early on, but as player numbers decrease the Sheriff's view of what's going on becomes clearer, and you really want him/her to believe you are on the side of good right up until the point you turn on him/her.

When we were playing in the pub, it came down to me, Hentzau and Jim, who was the Sheriff. I was the renegade, Hentzau was the deputy, and it had been made fairly obvious that this was the case so Jim didn't have much trouble deciding to kill me. If I'd made more of an effort to come across as a deputy, it wouldn't necessarily have turned out that way.

Ok. But what I'm trying to do is help Jen's view become a lot clearer for when I die, because it seems like I'm going to be the next one who dies and we're not in the "late game" yet.

The only defence the guy who kills me will have is "oh, I thought he was lying". Which, stacked against what I've said today and the fact I'm actually a deputy, wont look great.

I know if I was another deputy looking on this, I'd think twice about killin' ol' Kramer. An outlaw might not. And now, I've exhausted all I have to say for round 5 I reckon.

#32 Masked Dave

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Posted 22 May 2009 - 11:02 AM

View PostKramer, on May 22 2009, 11:17 AM, said:

I dunno, by not making any claims? By making it more difficult to tell who is who?
And how would you make it difficult to tell who was who?

Surely by pretending to be a deputy?
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#33 Kramer

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Posted 22 May 2009 - 11:15 AM

I mean "grey" as in it's not clear who is who and keeping it that way. Claiming you're a deputy is a "black and white" move. Even if you did it as an Outlaw, you'd be claiming you're white when you are in fact black rather than keeping things murky.

There's a difference between a situation of deliberate mystification and telling an outright lie. I'm saying the outlaws/ renegades don't necessarily need to tell that lie in this game.

#34 Masked Dave

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Posted 22 May 2009 - 12:19 PM

I know what you mean by "grey" _

So if I was a deputy, I could just say I'm a deputy and then obviously I'd be a deputy because an outlaw would never have reason to do that?

Your logic just plain doesn't work.

The Outlaws don't want people to know they are Outlaws.

In order to do that they must act like Deputies. BECAUSE THEY ARE THE ONLY OTHER PEOPLE.

Anything else than behaving like a Deputy and there would be an obvious difference in behaviour which could easily be used to identify all Outlaws!

That's surely not a hard concept to grasp, right?

Outlaws will say they are Deputies.
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#35 Lu-Tze

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Posted 22 May 2009 - 12:32 PM

If no-one knows anyone's role, then saying "I'm a Deputy!" also makes you a target for the Outlaws. Except you know, you'd think they might be a little bit more SUBTLE about it, because otherwise you just end up looking a bit of a prat.
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#36 Masked Dave

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Posted 22 May 2009 - 12:36 PM

Reality is, there's plenty of motives for people to do something.

And since nobody has any inside knowledge, every decision they make could be misguided.

So there is nothing than can be read into them.
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but it seems that whilst I am Amazing you are Ultimate."- Lu

#37 Josh

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Posted 22 May 2009 - 05:28 PM

All I know is, is that I'm the sheriff's guy. Sheriff: I'm your guy.
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#38 Jentastic!

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Posted 22 May 2009 - 05:58 PM

View PostKramer, on May 22 2009, 10:46 AM, said:

Yeah, but an outlaw doesn't really need to prove anything does he? His aim is to get himself into a position in which he can kill the Sheriff. He gains or loses nothing by claiming he's a deputy, in fact it's in his interests to keep things as grey as possible.

However, a deputy has every reason to try to help the Sheriff's investigation by trying to make it more clear who is who. And that is what I'm trying to do.
I think every player but one has outed themselves to me as a deputy so far _

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#39 Janek

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Posted 22 May 2009 - 06:01 PM

I don't think I have. I like to get my message across with actions.

Like interpretive dance.
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#40 Jentastic!

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Posted 22 May 2009 - 06:15 PM

I do always appreciate interpretive dance. From now on, everybody who wants to be a deputy: DANCE.
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#41 Inflammable Jim

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Posted 22 May 2009 - 06:17 PM

I don't want to be a deputy, I just am.
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#42 Kramer

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Posted 22 May 2009 - 06:19 PM

That's desperately unfair Sheriff. You should know I hate dancing. :(

#43 Jentastic!

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Posted 22 May 2009 - 06:20 PM

Clearly the sign of an outlaw.
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#44 Josh

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Posted 22 May 2009 - 08:15 PM

I was born dancing.

Me? Totally your guy.
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#45 Jentastic!

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Posted 22 May 2009 - 08:34 PM

Nah, see, now you're just overdoing it. That's renegade territory, that is.
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#46 Hentzau

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Posted 22 May 2009 - 08:42 PM

Polite prod to Teef and Jim and Kramer.

#47 Inflammable Jim

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Posted 23 May 2009 - 12:23 AM

Also can you put the weapon ranges back on after this round, I've completely forgotten how far all these things can shoot.
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#48 Hentzau

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Posted 23 May 2009 - 09:15 AM

Go and look at the wiki you goddamn indigent.

#49 Jentastic!

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Posted 23 May 2009 - 09:23 AM

Given that Kramer isn't back for a while, this is probably going to be a long round.

<edit> Can we shoot 'im?
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#50 Hentzau

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Posted 23 May 2009 - 09:58 AM

He sent me his orders just before he left, don't worry. I'm just being lazy and doing things like washing myself and feeding myself before I get around to crunching the numbers this time around.