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BANG! round five


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#1 Hentzau

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Posted 21 May 2009 - 07:05 PM

Jentastic! draws 2 cards.
Janek draws 2 cards plus 3 more for killing an Outlaw.
Inflammable Jim draws a Spade and is stuck in Jail for another turn.
Kramer draws 2 cards.
Josh draws 2 cards plus another that I forgot to give him earlier because of his special ability.
Feet draws 2 cards, the second of which is a Beer with a Heart on it. He draws a third bonus card.

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#2 Jentastic!

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Posted 21 May 2009 - 07:23 PM

Oooh, the action it is hotting up!
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#3 Kramer

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Posted 21 May 2009 - 11:58 PM

You know that wanted thing next to CAD's name? Does that mean he was a bandit?

If so, I think the fact he was trying to claim I was a baddie yesterday is an (admittedly small) indication that I'm a deputy.

#4 Inflammable Jim

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Posted 22 May 2009 - 12:03 AM

Do I have to lay down the statsbook here. Do I have to do this. Do you want me to. Because I will.

NO PRISON CAN HOLD ME
You know...we lost the first battle of the Chesapeake because of a mysterious...treacherous...Ankylosaurus

#5 Kramer

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Posted 22 May 2009 - 12:04 AM

Yeah go on.

#6 Inflammable Jim

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Posted 22 May 2009 - 12:06 AM

No two players know what role they are.
Clearasday dying and being an outlaw makes it, from my perspective, 1/4 you're a deputy instead of 1/5
Clearasday wanting you dead makes no difference to those odds, which apply to every single player.
You know...we lost the first battle of the Chesapeake because of a mysterious...treacherous...Ankylosaurus

#7 Kramer

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Posted 22 May 2009 - 12:23 AM

View PostInflammable Jim, on May 22 2009, 01:06 AM, said:

No two players know what role they are.
Clearasday dying and being an outlaw makes it, from my perspective, 1/4 you're a deputy instead of 1/5
Clearasday wanting you dead makes no difference to those odds, which apply to every single player.

I had a feeling you'd say that.

But here's the thing. I think CAD 1. might have figured I was a deputy (and so, as an Outlaw) wanted me dead and 2. was locked in a bit of a TWG mindset and thought he might get my "lynched" instead of him.

It is not a very strong case, but the fact is that I'm a goodie. And I'm doing my best to help Sheriff Jentastic!

Also, I have one of these: Posted Image

Do you?

#8 Janek

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Posted 22 May 2009 - 05:37 AM

PIRATE. KILL HIM.
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#9 Masked Dave

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Posted 22 May 2009 - 08:13 AM

View PostKramer, on May 22 2009, 01:23 AM, said:

I had a feeling you'd say that.

But here's the thing. I think CAD 1. might have figured I was a deputy (and so, as an Outlaw) wanted me dead and 2. was locked in a bit of a TWG mindset and thought he might get my "lynched" instead of him.
That has to be the most amazing piece of logic ever.

1. Assume CAD thinks Kramer is a Deputy.
2. CAD is dead and an outlaw.
3. Therefore Kramer is a Deputy.
"It's amazing how deep we had to drill to find our key difference,
but it seems that whilst I am Amazing you are Ultimate."- Lu

#10 Kramer

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Posted 22 May 2009 - 08:42 AM

I've been reading this recently Masked:

Posted Image

When I get home I can give you the correct name for what I've done wrong there :D

To be fair though, you've made my argument into something it wasn't. For a start, you've got the antecedent and the consequent a little mixed up. _  If I was to write out everything in full it'd be:

1. Outlaws want to kill deputies
2. CAD was an outlaw, therefore wanted to kill deputies.
3. CAD tried to get Kramer killed, therefore CAD probably thought Kramer was a deputy.

That's more sound no?

I also made a second argument:

1. In TWG, people often try to survive by getting someone else killed.
2. CAD was probably locked in a TWG mindset.
2. Therefore, when CAD and Kramer were both on low life, he tried to survive by trying to get Kramer killed.

That second argument doesn't really affirm my deputy-ness, I was just trying to help Jentastic see things clearly.

#11 Masked Dave

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Posted 22 May 2009 - 08:48 AM

Quote

1. Outlaws want to kill deputies
2. CAD was an outlaw, therefore wanted to kill deputies.
3. CAD tried to get Kramer killed, therefore CAD probably thought Kramer was a deputy.

That's more sound no?
Well okay, I was just taking 1 & 2 as facts without stating them and starting from 3.

But CAD had no idea who the other Outlaws were, so his actions mean nothing and nothing can be drawn from them.

And the assumption that "CAD probably thought Kramer was a deputy" isn't necessarily true anyway. He might have wanted to kill you for shits-and-giggles.

Edit: People don't mind me getting involved in the discussion here do they? I'll bow out if anyone does.
"It's amazing how deep we had to drill to find our key difference,
but it seems that whilst I am Amazing you are Ultimate."- Lu

#12 Kramer

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Posted 22 May 2009 - 08:49 AM

View PostMasked Dave, on May 22 2009, 09:48 AM, said:

Well okay, I was just taking 1 & 2 as facts without stating them and starting from 3.

But CAD had no idea who the other Outlaws were, so his actions mean nothing.

CAD not knowing who the other Outlaws were has no bearing on the fact that he might have thought that I was a deputy.

View PostMasked Dave, on May 22 2009, 09:48 AM, said:

And the assumption that "CAD probably thought Kramer was a deputy" is also meaningless. He might have wanted to kill you for shits-and-giggles.

You present a viable alternative but it doesn't render the first claim "meaningless".

#13 Masked Dave

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Posted 22 May 2009 - 08:51 AM

Yeah that was bad word usage, I've edited it away.
"It's amazing how deep we had to drill to find our key difference,
but it seems that whilst I am Amazing you are Ultimate."- Lu

#14 Masked Dave

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Posted 22 May 2009 - 08:52 AM

View PostKramer, on May 22 2009, 09:49 AM, said:

CAD not knowing who the other Outlaws were has no bearing on the fact that he might have thought that I was a deputy.
Well even if he did think that (which we don't know), why would that mean anything. He could easily have been wrong. Being an outlaw doesn't give him any special insight into these matters.
"It's amazing how deep we had to drill to find our key difference,
but it seems that whilst I am Amazing you are Ultimate."- Lu

#15 Kramer

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Posted 22 May 2009 - 08:52 AM

Yeah, I agree that it isn't necessarily true, but it's still a distinct possibility. And, as such, is the only tangible evidence I have to affirm my deputy-ness.

#16 Masked Dave

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Posted 22 May 2009 - 08:56 AM

But it isn't tangible! It's make-believe!
"It's amazing how deep we had to drill to find our key difference,
but it seems that whilst I am Amazing you are Ultimate."- Lu

#17 Kramer

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Posted 22 May 2009 - 08:57 AM

It's not make-believe, it's a possibility.

#18 Feet

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Posted 22 May 2009 - 09:01 AM

It's also a possibility that you're a moron. TANGIBLE EVIDENCE I REST MY CASE.

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#19 Kramer

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Posted 22 May 2009 - 09:04 AM

1. Moron is not a very nice word used by not very nice people.
2. Feet said that Kramer is possibly a moron.
3. Therefore it's a possibility that Feet isn't very nice.

How'd you like THEM apples? :D

#20 Feet

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Posted 22 May 2009 - 09:06 AM

I am great fan of apples, that I cannot deny.
I still love you

#21 Masked Dave

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Posted 22 May 2009 - 09:11 AM

View PostKramer, on May 22 2009, 09:57 AM, said:

It's not make-believe, it's a possibility.
Nobody except CAD knows why he did something so the players can't use his actions to determine anything.

For example, it's equally possible that he thought you were an Outlaw and wanted to kill you to prove his innocence!
"It's amazing how deep we had to drill to find our key difference,
but it seems that whilst I am Amazing you are Ultimate."- Lu

#22 Kramer

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Posted 22 May 2009 - 09:40 AM

Well yes, that's a possibility too. I've already admitted:

View PostKramer, on May 22 2009, 01:23 AM, said:

It is not a very strong case

But it's the best one I have. All I can do is make the best possible case for being a deputy before I am killed, so that when Sheriff Jentastic! is looking over my remains she'll have a good idea that the guy what went and done me in is probably a heel. The guy who goes ahead and shoots me now will have done so knowing I've made this argument claiming I'm a deputy.

You want the logic written out in full again?

1. Kramer has come right out and said "I'm a deputy" and tried to back it up with the best case he could find.
2. Therefore the guy who shoots Kramer next is knowingly shooting a guy who has claimed he is a deputy and tried to back it up.
3. So when Kramer turns up dead and is in fact revealed to be a deputy, the Sheriff will have points 1. and 2. to consider.

This is all.

#23 Masked Dave

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Posted 22 May 2009 - 09:43 AM

Well except you could easily be lying. Nobody is going to say they're an Outlaw after all.
"It's amazing how deep we had to drill to find our key difference,
but it seems that whilst I am Amazing you are Ultimate."- Lu

#24 Kramer

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Posted 22 May 2009 - 09:46 AM

Yeah, but an outlaw doesn't really need to prove anything does he? His aim is to get himself into a position in which he can kill the Sheriff. He gains or loses nothing by claiming he's a deputy, in fact it's in his interests to keep things as grey as possible.

However, a deputy has every reason to try to help the Sheriff's investigation by trying to make it more clear who is who. And that is what I'm trying to do.

#25 Masked Dave

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Posted 22 May 2009 - 09:48 AM

But an Outlaw would want to appear to be a Deputy, and so if what you suggest is what a Deputy would do then that's what an Outlaw would do to. Otherwise it would all be rather obvious wouldn't it?

To put it another way, you think a deputy should behave in a certain way and so you're trying to behave that way. Sounds like something someone pretending to be a deputy would do to me ;)
"It's amazing how deep we had to drill to find our key difference,
but it seems that whilst I am Amazing you are Ultimate."- Lu