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Day Eight: Paper Planes


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#26 Masked Dave

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Posted 17 August 2009 - 08:10 AM

Yeah, I love Queen and I didn't notice any at all. I just tried going back and looking for them too and couldn't spot them!
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but it seems that whilst I am Amazing you are Ultimate."- Lu

#27 Kramer

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Posted 17 August 2009 - 08:14 AM

On one of the days, even Josh couldn't spot the Queen song. So yes, a bit hard. I'll highlight them now if I get a bit of time.

View PostMasked Dave, on Aug 17 2009, 09:05 AM, said:

The style Kramer used for his posts didn't help either though.

Well dude, I was a ghost. ;)

#28 Josh

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Posted 17 August 2009 - 08:15 AM

Pikcing Kramer as the first ghost was probably a bit cruel of me :)
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#29 Schtroumpf

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Posted 17 August 2009 - 08:16 AM

View PostJosh, on Aug 17 2009, 09:00 AM, said:

Smurf - no, I have 4 points for Hent and two each for Kramer, Smurf, Masked (ghosts), Jenny and Scuzz (human). There were two points going for the list of artists, which only Kramer got right, but he sent it in at 11pm, well after the deadline.
I thought the ghosts started with a two point advantage, or did you not do that this game?

View PostMasked Dave, on Aug 17 2009, 09:05 AM, said:

Yeah, only needing to include one song title a day is quite hard to spot because there are so many that can easily be put into a sentence. Even using all of them in one go didn't require that much effort, they all found a place easily enough. (Although I'm under no pretence that people wouldn't have noticed if they were actually still playing.) I think themes should be more abstract, like colours or shapes or something.

The style Kramer used for his posts didn't help either though.
Try doing that with Oasis singles of the 90s.  I got Stand By Me into my only ghost solution and I had a couple of ideas for others but I was stumped as to how I'd get the rest in without it being really obvious.

"The temperature inside this apple pie is over 1000 degrees. If I squeeze it, a jet of molten bramley apple will squirt out. Could go your way; could go mine. Either way, one of us is going down."


#30 Josh

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Posted 17 August 2009 - 08:20 AM

Aside: I am now convinced that this would work better as a live game than a forum one. The themes could be MUCH simpler - "names of fruit", for example, or "animals" - and would have to be in the title of the solution rather than the body.
George Alagiaaaaaaargh: I lost my pecker in the siege :(

#31 Josh

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Posted 17 August 2009 - 08:21 AM

View PostSmurf, on Aug 17 2009, 09:16 AM, said:

I thought the ghosts started with a two point advantage, or did you not do that this game?
:o

I forgot about that.

Yeah, okay, it's actually a draw.
George Alagiaaaaaaargh: I lost my pecker in the siege :(

#32 Kramer

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Posted 17 August 2009 - 08:21 AM

While no one's looking:

View PostKramer, on Aug 7 2009, 08:54 PM, said:

Leave It To The Gardner

Cybil dismounted the carriage, her magnificent bosom dominated the driveway as she walked towards the gate. Although she was dressed in a standard issue housemaid's outfit, there was no doubting her figure: she was the definition of buxom. Clinging to her arm with both of his arms was Philbert. He was thin and pale, and wore a frilly cravat. He bore an arch expression, his eyebrows seemed to lose interest in themselves and faded long before their natural conclusion.

Suddenly he saw the faces of the nine strangers before him. He gulped and whispered to Cybil, "what men are these, Cybil? Where are we? Oh save me! Take me away from this awful place". Cybil looked at him softly, "there now, Master, calm you. I'm with you and you'll be safe". "Oh Cybil, please protect me at all times, I don't like the way they stare ..." Suddenly, Philbert spotted William Goatpunch and panicked. He turned his face away and pointed at him with his arm outstretched: "Cybil, tell that man to not to look me in the eye. His hands have soil on them, he has dirt on his face. DIRT. On his face. I'm never going to forgive mummy for putting me through this".

Cybil walked over to William Goatpunch. "Excuse me kindly sir, but there's been a request from Master Cadwaller, he's very delicate you see. Doesn't like to see people ... well, sir, all I ask is that you keep your distance..." She paused. "Because if you don't, I'm going to break your legs, do you understand? Just try it Mister and you'll be sorry that you were ever born!" Cybil looked four hundred types of dagger at him and spoke as if lightning would strike down the man who dared contradict here.

Cybil returned to Philbert and he resumed his position of clinging to her arm. He whispered to her, "Thank you Cybil. You are my white knight and I am your white rabbit". She stifled a laugh and smiled at him. "Master Philbert, what about that gate? Did Lady Cadwaller give you a key?" "It's covered with plants Cybil. That, that working man you spoke to: he's a gardener is he not? He is paid to keep these things in order. Let us leave it to him. I am tired. Blanky please." With that, Cybil got a blanket from her bag. She sat on the side of the road. Philbert rested his head on her lap and she covered him with the blanket. "Cybil", he said, "keep me safe in this horrible place". "I will, now rest sir, you've had a busy day".

As Philbert was asleep Cybil stroked his hair. She caught William Goatpunch's eye and mouthed the words Ground Force to him.

View PostKramer, on Aug 8 2009, 02:20 PM, said:

The Master's Bedroom

Philbert was now awake. He whispered something to Cybil, who then clapped her hands for attention.

"Master Cadweller has an announcement to make. He would like silence before he speaks, thank you"

The bewildered group looked on as the pampered 22-year old climbed onto the bed as if it was a podium and proceeded to make his pronouncement:

"First, since I bear the Cadweller name, and since I am the most important person here, I lay claim to this bedroom as my own. Now I'm here, this shall be the place where I rest for the duration of our stay. Cybil shall sleep on the floor.

Second, I have a plan. Cybil carries with her everywhere her standard-issue "Essential Maid's Kit", which has in it, among other things, a great deal of thread. I propose that you eight people (and one cat) should nominate between you two volunteers to explore the two paths. Using the thread, each of the volunteers shall be tied to the bed: each volunteer can then, in relative safety, scout the two available paths for danger and report back to the group. You may stay here, in my bedroom, until we can discern the correct route, but after that time access to this room will be prohibited. Thank you."

Cybil started clapping, she then gave a withering stare to everyone else to follow suit. They also felt compelled to give applause, although no-one had a clear sense of why they were doing it. Philbert bowed and then waited for Cybil to come over to him to help him get down from the bed (by getting on her hands and knees and letting him use her back and a step). He seemed to be very pleased with himself and could scarcely hide a smile from creeping over his face. He whispered to his maid, "I told them Cybil, didn't I?", "You were brilliant Master Cadweller, the girls would have been proud of you", "Oh do you think so, Cybil? Do you really think so?" "You are a master of oratory, sir, you shouldn't be so surprised". Philbert beamed as Cybil took a quick look at the time.

View PostKramer, on Aug 10 2009, 11:51 AM, said:

Body Language

As everyone moved down into the corridor of doom, Philbert slumped onto the bed with a sullen expression on his face; his body language was pointedly anti-Cybil in that he had very deliberately positioned his knees facing away from her. "What's wrong master?", said Cybil. "'Master of oratory'", he said, "it's all right for you to sit there grinning like a Cheshire Cat with your fat face Cybil, but not one ... NOT ONE person voted for my suggestion. They are laughing at me out there you know? And it's all your fault". Cybil rolled her eyes and did not respond. Philbert continuted ...

"I'm going to show them. I'll show them! Cybil! DOOR!"

Cybil rushed to opened the door to the corridor and he marched through it with purpose. He addressed the crowd,

"Listen to me now you ...", they continued talking among themselves. He sighed. "Cybil". She clapped and got everyone's attention to hear Master Cadweller:

"If you people have noticed: these projections do not reflect the behaviour of the people they are meant to be. For example, look at the dark version of me: he is not standing with the dark version of Cybil, Cybil would never be more than a few inches away from me in a strange place like this -- so obviously that is the false one and I am the real one and likewise that is the false Cybil. All we need to do is to use a similar process of behavioural analysis of body language in order to uncover the real people from the dopplegangers by focusing on something distinctive to each person. Once we discern the true identities we tie some of Cybil's red thread to each person's arm so we can easily spot them at a glance. From there, it is simply a case of leaving these strange apparitions to their hauntings and moving on: we need not engage them in direct combat for we have no idea about how they will harm us if they are provoked and it is best not to provoke them. Thank you."

Philbert then went rather sheepishly over to Cybil. "Sorry I shouted at you, ummmm ... Was that better than yesterday?" Cybil replied in blank tones: "yes sir, very good". "Oh Cybil have I upset you?" "No I'm fine".

View PostKramer, on Aug 12 2009, 04:07 PM, said:

Eat Me

As the party rumbled on, Philbert sat alone. Cybil was intergrating with the group and seemed to be having a good time. "They are talking about me", said Philbert to himself dejectedly, "but they don't understand ..." Philbert drifted into a soft song as if a string quartet had started playing:

"# People think it's easy being me
'It's a hard life for the poor', they say,
'You can't be gay and fancy free
When you're in the Workhouse every day'
But what I would give to be one of them
Laughing and joking as I toiled
What I would give to have one friend
who sees me for more than being spoiled.
To share with me what I have seen
And listen to the places I've in
In my miiiiiinnnnd.

Oh I've tasted paprika
And Mexican beans!
I've been all the way to Africa
And I have met the Queen!
In my miiiiinnnnd"

He stopped. "What are they saying about me anyway? Lewis Carroll? Proposterous! For a start, if I know Cybil, she checked her watch because she was bored of me going on like I do. It would be a bit tenuous to mention checking the time without explicitly saying 'I'm Late' to give it a context. That's a clear reason to vote against the exorcism".

-------

After the events outlined here Philbert was back with the others. He found Cybil and ran to her.

"Oh Cybil, I'm so sorry. I should never have spoken to you like that ..." He looked sheepish "I might not be yours ... but you're my best friend. I've been horrible". Cybil turned to face him. Philbert continued, "as long as you cut down on the back chat and do as I say, I'll play the game as you want: make an effort to integrate with others and try to fit in a bit more. Deal?" Philbert looked at her with open eyes, his heart started beating. "Of course master", said Cybil, "deal". They embraced.

"So what should we do about this predicatment?", asked Philbert

"It's obvious, sir" said Cybil softly, "let's just eat these cakes marked Eat Me I've got, oh and this mushroom with a talking caterpiller on it". Philbert laughed, he was just glad to have her back, he felt safe again.


#33 Jentastic!

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Posted 17 August 2009 - 08:22 AM

View PostJosh, on Aug 17 2009, 09:20 AM, said:

Aside: I am now convinced that this would work better as a live game than a forum one. The themes could be MUCH simpler - "names of fruit", for example, or "animals" - and would have to be in the title of the solution rather than the body.

Wow, he's for real guys! He's convinced! Look, he used italics and everything! Live HHG would be awesome to try.

Smurf: I actually noticed Stand By Me (although I was thinking of the film) and highlighted it mentally. But then I had nothing else to compare it to as it was the only ghost solution you posted :D
Existentialism? Don't even get me Sartred.

#34 Strudel the Dancing Pastry

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Posted 17 August 2009 - 08:31 AM

Even with them all highlighted I never would have got any of Masked's or Kramer's as I've never heard of any of those songs.

Still, I enjoyed the game up until the last couple of days, but I just gave up in the end because I couldn't find any themes.

Also, I was under the mistaken assumption that the theme was exactly the same for all ghosts.
Spins and turns, angles and curves. The shape of dreams, half remembered. Slip the surly bonds of earth and touch the face of perfection - a perfect face, perfect lace.
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only about 2 inches :(

#35 Jentastic!

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Posted 17 August 2009 - 08:32 AM

No, that wasn't the case in the last game either. They were all linked, but they were different themes, which is the same here, really.
Existentialism? Don't even get me Sartred.

#36 Masked Dave

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Posted 17 August 2009 - 08:32 AM

View PostKramer, on Aug 17 2009, 09:14 AM, said:

On one of the days, even Josh couldn't spot the Queen song. So yes, a bit hard. I'll highlight them now if I get a bit of time.
Well dude, I was a ghost. ;)
You continued after you'd been exorcised though, so it's just you admit it :P

One thing I don't get, why the post with all the Alice in Wonderland references when we thought that was your theme? All you needed to do was post a solution without any reference in it and we'd have not exorcised you.
"It's amazing how deep we had to drill to find our key difference,
but it seems that whilst I am Amazing you are Ultimate."- Lu

#37 Kramer

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Posted 17 August 2009 - 08:36 AM

View PostMasked Dave, on Aug 17 2009, 09:32 AM, said:

You continued after you'd been exorcised though, so it's just you admit it :P

One thing I don't get, why the post with all the Alice in Wonderland references when we thought that was your theme? All you needed to do was post a solution without any reference in it and we'd have not exorcised you.

It was a plan to get some points and then get re-ghosted ... also, I just couldn't resist throwing a red herring at the detectives _

View PostStrudel the Dancing Pastry, on Aug 17 2009, 09:31 AM, said:

Also, I was under the mistaken assumption that the theme was exactly the same for all ghosts.

I was too until about day 5

#38 Josh

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Posted 17 August 2009 - 09:17 AM

So, rules changes. Apart from the too-hard themes, what didn't work?

Exorcism is improved but there were a few occasions when the propose-wait-vote system stiffled debate. Jen and Strudel both put up theories which weren't really constructively commented on; I feel like that's because they weren't perceived to be going anywhere, because they hadn't been put to the vote. Leafcutter's suggestion did rather better because he forced people to put it to a vote. How about: instead of the formal structure, players can opt to propose an exorcism at any time they feel. This replaces any proposal or solution that they might make that day. Proposing an exorcism costs 2 points immediately. The exorcism then needs to extra votes - it needs someone to second then third it. If the target is a ghost then the player gets three points back; if the target is a human then they get one. If they don't get the requisite votes then their stake is gone. Multiple exorcisms can be proposed each day but only one - the first to reach three votes - will be enacted.
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#39 Schtroumpf

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Posted 17 August 2009 - 09:24 AM

I like that, but it'll make it harder for the ghosts to turn people if humans have no reason not to propose a solution.  If this is a good thing or a bad thing I don't know.

"The temperature inside this apple pie is over 1000 degrees. If I squeeze it, a jet of molten bramley apple will squirt out. Could go your way; could go mine. Either way, one of us is going down."


#40 Masked Dave

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Posted 17 August 2009 - 09:26 AM

Quote

Proposing an exorcism costs 2 points immediately.

I don't think there should be any cost for suggesting it, but you do need someone with points to perform the exorcism, so the suggester isn't necessarily the nominated exorcist.
"It's amazing how deep we had to drill to find our key difference,
but it seems that whilst I am Amazing you are Ultimate."- Lu

#41 Josh

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Posted 17 August 2009 - 09:27 AM

One thing that Leafcutter suggested was having a daily action - say, "pray" - in which humans who don't wish to post a solution can pray in exchange for 1 point.

Having thought about it, though, I don't know that the incentive (1 point) quite makes up for the disincentive (allowing the ghosts to turn).
George Alagiaaaaaaargh: I lost my pecker in the siege :(

#42 Masked Dave

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Posted 17 August 2009 - 09:29 AM

I've got a feeling this game will always descend to a point where the humans realise there about about 7 different possible outcomes and it's impossible to know which is the true one and that the game could just run forever so we might as well use the radio.

Maybe there should be a mechanism where the humans can find out more information. A special role or action that can be performed.
"It's amazing how deep we had to drill to find our key difference,
but it seems that whilst I am Amazing you are Ultimate."- Lu

#43 Josh

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Posted 17 August 2009 - 09:35 AM

Seers are the bane of TWG, really. Perhaps a player who can, as a one-shot, tell whether an exorcism was effective or not?

Logically, the longer the game lasts, the more the humans should gain opportunities. This isn't like TWG; the signs of villainy aren't so ephemeral. Once a ghost's theme has been identified, the themes of other ghosts become easier to spot, and more days = more information.
George Alagiaaaaaaargh: I lost my pecker in the siege :(

#44 Josh

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Posted 17 August 2009 - 09:45 AM

Also, it should be said, the quality of the solutions was very high. You all gave me chuckles. Props!
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#45 Kramer

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Posted 17 August 2009 - 10:04 AM

This game was hurt by inactivity quite a lot. I was one of the main culprits so I can't complain really -- apart from a 3 day absence, beyond posting my little narratives I wasn't really involved (like last time). Partly due to time contraints and partly down to starting in a style and stubbornly sticking with it.

I think maybe the larger number of players made it generally harder to be honest. "Flow" was kinda hurt as it never really got going and non-voting became the status quo.  I honestly think a hard cap of 6 players would suit the game better.

Aside from that: make it harder for ghosts. Like if my thing genuinely was Alice in Wonderland that would have put me into overdrive.

#46 Masked Dave

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Posted 17 August 2009 - 10:13 AM

View PostJosh, on Aug 17 2009, 10:35 AM, said:

Seers are the bane of TWG, really. Perhaps a player who can, as a one-shot, tell whether an exorcism was effective or not?

Logically, the longer the game lasts, the more the humans should gain opportunities. This isn't like TWG; the signs of villainy aren't so ephemeral. Once a ghost's theme has been identified, the themes of other ghosts become easier to spot, and more days = more information.
Yeah that's why I didn't suggest a role, I can't think of one that would work.

Some sort of clue as to the theme I guess, but then the thread titles were a pretty big clue. I actually realised that it was likely we were looking for song/music themes, but since I'm useless at that topic I didn't bother looking.
"It's amazing how deep we had to drill to find our key difference,
but it seems that whilst I am Amazing you are Ultimate."- Lu

#47 Inflammable Jim

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Posted 17 August 2009 - 10:13 AM

To be honest I'd change it so that a ghost must win the solutions vote to turn another ghost. A special role that can periodically confirm how many ghosts there are, maybe.

This partly counterracts the temptation to spread the solutions amongst everybody, and also means ghosts have to write an eyecatching and prominent solution to turn.

I would also perhaps give the ghost one free turning as purely relying on winning the solution might take a while with just one ghost. Say they need to have received two votes to trigger it maybe. Or the whole turning thing could be based on that. 3 votes amongst all ghosts = one turning, 8 = another, 15 = another, and so on
You know...we lost the first battle of the Chesapeake because of a mysterious...treacherous...Ankylosaurus

#48 Josh

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Posted 17 August 2009 - 10:15 AM

View PostInflammable Jim, on Aug 17 2009, 11:13 AM, said:

To be honest I'd change it so that a ghost must win the solutions vote to turn another ghost. A special role that can periodically confirm how many ghosts there are, maybe.

This partly counterracts the temptation to spread the solutions amongst everybody, and also means ghosts have to write an eyecatching and prominent solution to turn.
I do like this idea, but the thing is that the most eye-catching and intereasting solutions don't always win; voting is pretty much always much more tactical than that, with the humans often working to spread the points, and linking ectoplasming to that would only exacerbate matters.
George Alagiaaaaaaargh: I lost my pecker in the siege :(

#49 Masked Dave

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Posted 17 August 2009 - 10:16 AM

One thing I've been thinking is that maybe solutions should be able to fail, I'm not sure how you'd decide that, GMs discretion I guess, but it'd mean you have to actually try and come up with a good solution and people don't just vote for the one with the funniest name/to spread votes around.

For example, with the mirror-dopplegangers puzzle, my solution to Pokemon fight my double would've have worked because while it might have shown which of the two mes was the right one, it wouldn't have helped the others.

Edit: Example the 2nd, Lu picked holes in my Day 1 solution because it went against the internal logic of pokemon which I was using to solve it, but there was no need to continue the discussion because well, if it got voted for then it would've worked.

It gives us something to discuss while people are looking for patterns and keeps activity up.
"It's amazing how deep we had to drill to find our key difference,
but it seems that whilst I am Amazing you are Ultimate."- Lu

#50 Inflammable Jim

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Posted 17 August 2009 - 10:17 AM

see edit

Basically I think anything is better than a system where being idle is a great strategy _
You know...we lost the first battle of the Chesapeake because of a mysterious...treacherous...Ankylosaurus